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Thriving as an Multipassionate Entrepreneur with Joy Michelle – Episode 08

If you’ve ever found yourself avoiding systems like the plague, struggled to consistently show up in your business, or felt like you had to choose between your calling as an entrepreneur and your calling as a mama, this episode is for you. Join Jordan as she interviews Joy Aleman, founder behind brands Photoboss® and Called to Both, as they dive deep into systems and strategies to help mothers thrive in both business and family life. 

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Being both a multi-passionate entrepreneur and a mom
  • The “doom scroll”  and why it’s important to create before you consume
  • Implementing systems for consistency and to prevent burnout
  • How our faith can impact our secular businesses

Find it quickly:

  • 2:31 – Passions, priorities, and motherhood
  • 6:26 – Not sacrificing work or family
  • 8:02 – How to stop comparing your business journey to others
  • 12:06 – The Doom Scroll
  • 15:38 – Consistency and content creation
  • 22:06 – Pillar content vs. instagram stories
  • 24:25 – Social media platforms, FOMO, and having a core focus for success
  • 27:13 – Using systems to prevent burnout
  • 32:35 – How to start using systems
  • 35:30 – How Joy’s faith journey has impacted her business

Resources mentioned:

This site contains product affiliate links. I may receive a commission if you make a purchase after clicking on one of these links.

So without further ado, let’s dive into the chat! You can listen to the full episode with the player below or continue scrolling for a full transcript.

Jordan:  Hi, Joy, welcome to the podcast. 

Joy: Hey, Jordan. I’m so excited to be here. 

Jordan:I’m so excited to have you and flip the script of you being a podcaster now, having to answer all my questions. 

Joy: I am, I’m thrilled and congratulations on this podcast. This is wonderful. 

Jordan:Thank you, I give a lot of props to you for helping me and encouraging me and answering all my Voxer questions of how the heck I start a podcast, so thank you. 

Before we dive in the meat of the questions, can you just take a minute and tell everyone a little bit about yourself and what you do. 

Meet Joy

Joy: Yeah, of course. So I am Joy. I run Joy Michelle Co. and I have a couple of different branches to my company, the largest one being that I founded PhotoBoss and PhotoBoss is an education business, to help photographers make more money, simply put,  with the business and the backend of what it looks like to grow a photography business. 

I’ve been in business for almost 10 years, which is crazy. Coming up on 10 years. Like so many different iterations and chapters and I don’t even know like what 3.0, 4.0 version we’re on at this point. But,10 years in, I have been married to my husband, Felipe for over 10 years. So he’s been a part of this from the start and we have two sweet kiddos together. We have Clara, our oldest, she is four, and then Lewis is almost two. 

Jordan: Oh, and it’s cool. We’ll definitely talk about this iteration idea too, because I think when you start a business, you want know what the five year plan is or what it’s going to look like.

And I know for me, and I’ve seen for you, especially with the transition of becoming a mom and having multiple kids, I think passions and priorities and things change. You run PhotoBoss, but now you’ve gotten so great at YouTube and podcasts that you do coaching for getting visibility, and so it’s so cool to see how your business has evolved as your expertise and your life and your priorities and everything have evolved too.

Embracing Being Multipassionate and The Curse of the Visionary

Joy: Right, I don’t think I could have predicted how the business would grow because starting out I was doing weddings and portraits and I don’t think if I would’ve seen into the future and had seen now the coaching programs and the courses and just the communities that are now the business, you couldn’t have known. So there is a certain openhandedness that has to happen when you’re in business for that long and you have multiple passions.

I’m definitely multi-passionate and I feel like I’ve wrestled with that, but this past year or two, probably since starting my podcast especially, I’ve really tried to just embrace my own journey, my own timing and uniqueness and if I had an interest in something, kind of just running with it and there is so much freedom in that and not trying to know exactly where am I going to be in five years, because I definitely was one of those planners of like, here’s where we’re going to be, we’re going to be on this magazine cover, which is wonderful – having that vision. I think that’s the curse of the visionary – have a vision, but also, hold that with an open hand. 

Feeling The Need to Choose Between Work and Family

Jordan: You just mentioned being multi-passionate and I think the nature of a lot of us as entrepreneurs and creatives, are multi-passionate and then you throw in being a mom as well.

You mentioned you have the podcast yourself and it’s called Called To Both and I adored the podcast, and so many of us, I think one of the reasons I really love what you’ve created with the Called To Both podcast and brand and community is that there are so many people that really struggle with that feeling that we need to choose between our work or our family instead of being able to embrace either being multi-passionate in our business or just feeling called in both aspects of our lives. Can you share a little bit about what Called To Both really means to you and and why you started the podcast?

Joy: Really similar to your story, Jordan, I had this podcast and even the name of it on my heart for a while and I sat on it. I had purchased the Called To Both domain name when, shortly after having my first baby. And I was just feeling this pull between really feeling called to build a business and to help creatives and all the different ways that I wanted to build the business, but also felt very much called to be a mom and be present and almost torn as if I would have to choose. 

And in all of that struggle of, you know, feeling torn I would seek, you know what, what are people saying about this? Like, how can I grow this business in a way that respects that I don’t have full-time hours, I don’t want full-time hours, but I want a full-time income. I felt a little shortchanged when I looked for information about marketing and business and balance and boundaries, even in business as a creative mom that is one hundred percent a boss, but also one hundred percent intentional mom.

I didn’t think I was the authority on this, but I thought maybe I can just make a platform for women like us to be able to share What is this looking like? What is our family life looking like? And I think just pulling back the curtain on what is possible and granting this, yes – you can be called to both. You can have more than one business, you can have more than one baby, you can be more than one thing. I think instead of saying you have to fit in this box, and that is really like where it all began. 

We Shouldn’t Have to Sacrifice Our Work For Our Family or Vice Versa

Jordan: Oh, that’s so great. It’s something that’s resonated with me since you started it, because I think, I’ve thought these things internally that, you know, this podcast even itself, we shouldn’t have to sacrifice our work for our family or vice versa.

I think God’s equipped us – I think about the Proverbs 31 Woman all the time – and I think God has equipped us with our children to disciple them and raise them and lead them. But I also have always felt like, all right Lord, but I feel like you’ve also made me an entrepreneur and you’ve given me these talents and skills, and I actually don’t feel like I’d be a good steward of that if I don’t do anything with it. 

I think in the creative industry before becoming a mom, and we talked about this right before we hopped on, is that it’s so easy being multi-passionate when you don’t have kids of like, I’m just going to launch this idea. Pete and I, when we were in the rv, we had an idea of Jim Hopper for President, if you’ve ever watched Stranger Things, it was like season one right around the presidential election, and we created a whole landing page and a Shopify drop shipping store and everything in like one night because we just had an idea and we ran with it.

And we can’t do that now. It’s forced us to simplify and be really intentional and strategic. I say all that because I think it’s seeing other people that maybe aren’t moms or have different goals than us or that work a full-time schedule, becuase you and I both work part-time in our business but want to have a big impact and still make a full-time salary from it. I don’t know about you but I can still struggle with seeing other people that are launching that course that, they were able to do a lot faster than meor on a bigger scale, because I have limited hours.

As someone that’s been in business for 10 years, is that something that you still struggle with at all, or how do you deal with seeing other people maybe run their businesses different or seem like they have a faster track to “ success”, if you want to call it, and then checking that with the boundaries and priorities you have in your own life.

The Highlight Reel and Comparison

Joy: I think that’s just the grass is greener syndrome and social media is great at getting in under your skin a little bit. It looks like people are just running circles around me in business and that will still crop up all the time. I don’t think it ever fully goes away. 

But I have started to really identify when it’s happening and get ahead of it instead of letting that thought spiral be like, “oh, look how amazing and she has all her life so perfect and wonderful” and “she came up with that two weeks ago and now she has a full cohort”. It’s easy to see that highlight reel and we know it’s a highlight.

But I’ve started to see and notice and be like, well, you know, her kids aren’t my kids’ ages and her team looks different than mine. And, I think she’s working more than I want to and reminding myself , “You don’t want to work full-time, Joy. So stop looking at people that are, because that’s fine.”

They may not want to have children. They may have older children, they may work full-time. To each their own. But if I believe that I also need to grant myself the permission to have a different outcome and a different pace. Every day it, it has to be this reminder. I’ve just muted and unfollowed a lot of people because I’ve realized, if it starts to make me feel less than, it is not adding anything.  I don’t feel connected, I don’t feel inspired. Sometimes people inspire me. I’m like, wow, look what they’re doing. Look what they’re creating. And that’s totally different than like, why don’t I have that? So I think I’ve started to tune in a little bit to the root of it. Is it bringing something up in me because I actually should be doing something closer to that?

I noticed that I was feeling like a lot of feelings when people would do coaching or like group coaching. And I think it wasn’t even a jealousy or an envy. I think it was, you need to be doing that. You secretly want to do that more than the other stuff over here, make more time for that. So I’ve tried to listen a little bit more and pray about these things more and react a little slower sometimes to what am I feeling exactly? A lot of times it’s like, oh, maybe you just don’t need to follow ’em. Maybe that’s taking up space in your head that you really can’t afford.

Right now, I feel like I have so much going on in my head as a working mom that I can’t afford to water. Thoughts that aren’t serving me. So I’ve tried to like really get ruthless about just being like, okay, let’s just mute them. 

Jordan: No, that’s such a good point though, because I think we can go to social media for inspiration and follow people and be like, oh, it’s amazing what they’re doing. And then internally or subconsciously, it can make us feel less than. Yeah, and to your point, there are people that make very different decisions than you. And one’s not better or more right than the other. I mean, we very well may homeschool our kids and that would give me significantly less time to work on my business.

But because we’re praying about that and thinking about that now, I’m creating a business intentionally in a way that can be run knowing I want to homeschool my kids potentially in the future. And there are other people who’s family decision might be that their kids are in school five days a week.

That might serve them and their family and their kids really well. I think it’s important, like you said, to keep in mind that we can’t base our worth or our decisions on the priorities that other people are setting to. Right. All we can do is kind of hold it up. The decisions that we’ve made with our spouse for our family in prayer for our own life. And I think muting the social media part is, I’ve had to take a lot of steps back too in You know, 

the last few years. 

The Doom Scroll and Creating Before You Consume

Joy: Someone called it like a doom scroll when you just start scrolling and watching a lot of short form video and you’re just spiraling.

Sometimes I just feel really strange after a little doom scroll and it’s not any one person. I just know that I was probably never designed to watch that many short form videos all at once. And I just need to like go create instead of consume. 

A lot of times we are not doing the thing we’ve been called to do, and so that’s why we’re so caught up in what everyone else is doing.  If we just put on those blinders a little bit and get quiet with, what are we being called to do and spend a little less time on what is she being called to do?

It’s a game changer. It really is. 

Jordan: Because to that point, we’re all called in different ways too. I think if you think about the body of Christ, even, I mean, this is more Christian focused than just like business world in general. But we’re all called, we’re different parts of the body, right?

We’re not all feet, we’re not all hands. It wouldn’t work very well if we all were. So we’re all called and gifted in different ways, and so that’s a really important thing to keep in mind too. And you mentioned focusing on the creation. The consumption. I think it’s really easy to fall into the opposite trap where we go to consumee, to get inspired to create and then it’s the doom scroll or it’s imitation, or it’s competition, or it’s all these other things that block us from creating from a place of who we are and who we’re trying to serve and what we’re really gifted at.

Joy: I think it’s so easy, especially when I’m unclear on what piece of content needs to come next or what am I doing with this strategy to just open my phone and open the app in an attempt to get inspired. But nine times out of ten, I just need to sit down without a device and actually figure out what am I doing? There’s so many good distractions. 

Jordan: You’re the queen of the fancy post-it notes and pens and I obsessed with every time you post those. But it’s true, sometimes we just need to like go analog and get off the devices. 

Joy: I do love a good post-it note, just an aesthetic pen and a post-it. Oh, so good. 

Jordan: So you have a subscription for that? 

Joy: I do. I treated myself and it brings me joy. I think it’s amazing. It’s from this company called Cloth and Paper and they have a pen subscription and then they also have one that like, they’ll send you all these beautiful pens and some paper and yeah, I aspire to get to that level. Right now. We’re just on the pen subscription. 

There’s an Audience for Everything (like Bible Bath Bombs)

Jordan: Guys, if you are doubting your niche or product, serving an audience, there is an audience for everything. If you want a pen and paper subscription, there is it. I just found the other day. Bible bath bomb for kids. It’s a bath bomb that comes with a Bible story. I’ll have to link it up.

But I, I saw this and I was like, I need this because my kids love baths. They steal my bath bombs and they love Bible stories, and I was just like, there is a niche for everything. You just need to know your people and know who you’re serving. The Joys of the world love pen and paper subscriptions. And you can serve them.

Joy: Yes, they will.  You need to link this up in the show notes. 

Jordan: Oh, a hundred percent. Your subscription and the Bible Bath Bombs. 

Consistency In Business and How to Become Consistent

Jordan: So we, were just talking about the content creation idea, and I think you are from an outsider’s perspective at least, you do this very well in your business. You really are a master at content creation and consistency with the content creation. Even with limited work schedule, having multiple brands, having multiple authors, multiple audiences. What advice would you give someone that might be struggling to show up online or to create consistently, and why is it important for their business to actually do.

Joy: Well first thank you. For me and, and in my business, content has been such a Cornerstone of my brand, and I don’t know where I would be today had I not started a YouTube channel or a podcast or any of the content that I’ve created in my business.

To me, it feels like moving my business forward and content go hand in hand.  They feel inseparable to me at this point, and that’s why I continue to make the time for it. I think if somebody is saying, “I see this content, I see the power of it. I want to know, like, how do I get more consistent?”, the first step is deciding that you’re going to create consistent content and then going backwards a little bit and looking at your schedule. 

Instead of saying, okay, I see you making YouTube content, I’m going to do that, or I see you doing a podcast, I’m going to do that, look at your available time, because content does take time, and that’s probably why people are inconsistent or don’t start at all.

Let your time constraint inform what you do with that content. 

I was just talking to my friend about this on Voxer the other day. She was like, okay, how long is this taking you,how long did it take you when you first started? And like lots of content questions.

And my advice to her was, actually, look at your schedule because she has two little kids. I gave her the advice of start, decide how much time you are going to allot to this now and, and just make it fit in that.

We’re going to just Parkinson’s law, this whole thing. If you are going to have this much time, we have to look at that first because a video can take any amount of time,, a podcast can take any amount of time. I feel like most listeners have created a blog post. I have totally spent like an embarrassing amount of time on a blog post. So we know that these things can just expand and become massive.

Letting your schedule inform the medium and like the cadence of it. And I think consistency just means regularity. Sometimes we think  it has to be once or twice a week, or it has to be whatever you see other people doing.  But really let that time that you have in your schedule inform what consistency looks like, because if it’s more realistic, you’re way more likely to actually keep up with it, which feels awesome when you’re actually keeping up with it. Your audience is getting used to hearing from you at a certain time, and you just build that self trust. This great content snowball starts rolling and we have to start a little bit smaller. 

I think kind of like my final point is start with a pillar piece of content that is easy to chop up, repurpose, and that will work for you for years. Really creating pieces of content that are going to serve you for a long time.  This is everything because I haven’t published on YouTube in a minute because right now in the business. We’re focusing on the podcast and then we’re going to add YouTube back in. But because I was on YouTube for so long and I have 150, maybe 200 videos. We continue to make AdSense revenue. We continue to get hundreds of subscribers a month. My email list is continually getting new leads and I’m not doing anything, but it’s bringing me traffic.

It’s still serving the marketing machine,and that was just a reminder and a confirmation of all that work that I spent on those posts from years past, it’s not over, it’s still there working for me.I haven’t published in in a while and I’m seeing that it’s still working. 

Jordan: I love that you said that because I think it’s so easy when we think about content creation to think of where it feels fun or good or vanity metrics to show up.

Like social media, right? Like to just show up on stories every day, right? And not that there’s anything wrong, I think you’re like an Instagram queen with showing up, but I know for me, when I was looking at my two day work week at the beginning of the year, and I was like, okay. What’s realistic for me to focus on, and I scaled all my services back to just funnel builds, and I scaled all my social media back to the podcast. Then everything else for me is bonus. I’m obviously going to share the podcast on Instagram. If I share posts, that’s great, but not having the pressure of feeling I need to serve in all these different places. Knowing the places that are going to serve you and your audience, like your YouTube channel, is something that is going to live on and is evergreen.

I think that’s really important for people that are looking at creating long-term, sustainable, scalable businesses. Your YouTube channel isn’t going away. It’s still being found and working for you without you doing more work. I am always an advocate of thinking more evergreen type of products because you know, I love funnels.

You’re saying your email list is growing right? Probably because in your YouTube channel you are telling people about guides, you are telling people about offers, you’re telling people things to get them on your list, and your system is working in the background and it’s serving you.

My point here is that is if you are going to take the time to create content, how can we do it in a way that’s going to continually serve our business and continually serve others and not just disappear in 24 hours? Not that that’s wrong or bad to show up that way, but let’s focus our effort on things that can put a little bit more output out.

Pillar Content Vs. Instagram Stories

Joy:  Oh, a hundred percent. Showing up on Instagram feels like this quick win. But sometimes the stories, the difference between a piece of pillar content and showing up in stories is that a pillar piece of content can position you as a thought leader in your space.

Whereas stories are great at nurturing, connecting, maybe even selling something, but it’s not this long form library of content where you’re like, this is what I speak on and this is what I’m known for. So in terms of brand authority and visibility and thought leadership, we want that pillar piece of content, which makes, all the pins and the little trickle down of content stories and carousel posts so much easier because you made the piece of pillar content first. I love showing up on Instagram stories, but the annoying thing is I feel like they don’t work for me years and years later.  

Jordan: It’s the people that have already found you. They’re on your list. There is a nurturing to that.There’s a Know-Like-Trust factor for sure. When I follow people and I get to see their, Cloth and Paper subscription or it adds personality to a different way. But you’re right, that thought leadership, proving yourself as an expert, answering the questions of what do you do and can you do it for me?

That happens more in that pillar content. 

Joy: I even think you can convince someone in a story, but you’re going to have to keep convincing them every single day because the stories go away, or they’re buried in a highlight somewhere. Instead of saying, go ahead and follow me over here, or read this whole section of category on my blog. It’s like you’re making it harder for yourself. There are people who succeed without a website, but are you making it a little bit harder for yourself? Probably. 

Jordan: Oh, that’s good. So everyone go think about what your pillar thing is!

I think the thing I’d add to that, and I feel like you’ve done this in your own businesses, you don’t need to be on every platform to have pillar content.

I think I’ve experienced a lot more freedom. Giving myself permission to just do one thing really well and the rest is all bonus. You launched the podcast just over a year ago, but you’ve had a YouTube channel a lot longer than that. And so, to me at least, it seems like you’ve had one core focus and then when that’s really been growing and you’ve had that system down, I’m sure you have people that help you edit and you know, like you build a team or process, then you add on the next factor of something else.

Joy: Yes. Which is tricky because I see people having all the success on TikTok, but I’m not right now, that’s just a little bit beyond what I can wrap my mind around and my team around.  And we’re succeeding without it. So I have to kind of remind myself of that. When I see people doing LinkedIn marketing and all these other spaces, I’m like, what’s happening? Should I be on LinkedIn? Like, And then I’m like, wait, no, no, we’re good. Stay in your lean. 

Jordan: But it’s true, I think, and the thing is, you could go crush LinkedIn, right? But like if you try to do all the platforms, you’re really not going to do them all very well.

At least as a mostly solo-preneur or mama-preneur. I think the reality is, unless you are Alex Heri and you have a huge team creating content for you every day. Yeah, it’s, it’s hard to show up in all these places. 

Pete recently this year downloaded Twitter for the first time and he loves Twitter now.

And I remember using Twitter exclusively senior year of college and when I worked at a startup in New York City and I was the marketing department. There were like 10 people total and I was marketing and I crushed Twitter for them. Twitter chat. I don’t know if you ever did a Twitter chat. Twitter chats was the thing that we did to grow their business, and I had this flashback moment of wait. Should I be on Twitter or is Twitter where it’s at? 

Joy: Yep. This like fomo. 

Jordan: Yes. I know how to do Twitter. I crushed Twitter before, and I have friends – Molly who was on the podcast recently – she crushes TikTok! She is an author, she wrote a book and she sells a ton of her books through TikTok. She shares a lot of Christian content and I’m like, I can do that, but I can’t do it all well. I think it’s just giving yourself permission to think about the type of content you want to create, the medium, and the cadence and the consistency, like you said,  becuase it’s better to show up once a week consistently than give yourself the pressure to it multiple times and not do anything. I think that comes just knowing yourself and also just making a decision and sticking with it. 

Joy: Like you said, if you show up and commit to too many platforms, then you can burn out too. And it doesn’t help anyone. You don’t reach people with your gifts and your calling if you’re burned out all the time.

So that’s a huge factor too, as, especially as largely solopreneurs burnout is a huge risk that we’re constantly teetering on. And as moms too, it’s so much. 

Systems and Preventing Burnout

Jordan: So let’s talk about systems then, because I think burnout lends really well to talking about that because, you know, I really love systems and I think that they’re a huge factor in how you can scale your business really simply while having a full-time income on a part-time business. I think systems is the key to scaling that. You obviously have a lot of systems in your business. It’s something you talk about for PhotoBoss and in Called to Both.

What’s one thing. You’ve done recently, maybe that has changed your business for the better, whether it’s, time management, or elevating your experience. What’s a reason why people need systems if people don’t want to take the time to set them up or feel like they’re kind of intimidating.

Joy: Well, I mean, I was the person that didn’t want to set up any of the systems. I am the visionary, free, flowing, creative. I wasn’t super into the tech or creating SOPs or having, a CRM and a client management. It was a little much for me. It took me a little while to get to the point where I was overwhelmed with clients and things were falling through the cracks and, I couldn’t bring on a team member because I didn’t have anything docuented. 

I had to like do it all wrong, to start to get some of it right. Thankfully I started to implement systems and I mean, this was years ago, but I’ve built slowly as I’ve gone and it has allowed so much more freedom, not just with clients being served better or making more money, but being able to bring on team members and get help in new areas where I wasn’t able to outsource before. I couldn’t get help with my content because I hadn’t ever actually sat down to document the process or create the guide or any of these things. That has been such a learning process for me. 

Most of my systems right now revolve around outsourcing, bringing on team members to help me create greater impact because I can’t do it all alone. A big tool for me, and I know you love it too, is Notion.

My whole business exists in Notion. If it doesn’t go in Notion, it’s not real. If the idea is not in Notion is not a real idea. Which is funny because I used to be the 12 notebooks and physical planner person and now everything needs to be digital. I think that’s one of the versions of me as an entrepreneur and as a mom that has changed a lot is that I have gotten a lot more organized.

I think that’s like just becoming a mom and narrowing down my hours and having to become ruthless with how I’m spending my time in my business has probably made me a little bit more of a grownup business owner. My actual planning and time blocking and productivity has become fun. I’m really into time management and moving towards big goals.

And it’s all to the point of let’s get to this fantastic goal, this, this calling, this thing. I don’t enjoy the system. I enjoy what it brings. I’ve come to see like that they connect me with what I, what I want and like where I feel called to go.

So Notion is a huge one for me. Building out standard operating procedures for my team has been really freedom giving as well. 

Jordan: I think that’s just a word on discipline too. Right. I think it’s funny the more, I mean, you talked about Parkinson’s law earlier. For those who don’t know it, it’s just the idea that the, the work’s going to fill the time that you have.

In our business you can spend 70 hours doing one thing. For me too, becoming a mom has forced me to have the discipline and to put the systems in place that were really easy to ignore for a long time because I don’t just have endless amounts of time to work and do things.

I love that you said the outcome is what makes it really worth it. We’re not creating systems  becuase we’re systems junkies. I love systems because of what they do for my life and for my business and I think funnels are kind of just systems for your marketing plan. And that’s why I love funnels because if you do it really well, you can still serve people, but you can serve more of them and make more money and have more time for your family.

Systems are the annoying, sometimes overwhelming thing to set up that you reap so many more benefits by doing that early, or by setting it up at some point in your business. 

For anyone that’s struggling to even know where to start, document what you’re doing. If you want to just outsource one piece, like I do want to outsource my podcast editing and creation and things, but right now I’m doing it first so I know the process and I know what it’s going to look like. And I’m sure you did that for your YouTube channel and whatever you might be getting help with.

Joy: The only thing that got me through it is just, like you said, a little bit of discipline, but also the prize on the other side  Of what it’s going to bring.

It kind of reminds me when you were talking of the James Clear quote where, he says, you don’t rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. Love that quote. And yes, I read this and I was like, dang it, dang it. If that’s not true, like, I guess I’m going to go figure out systems now, because I was like, I don’t need more systems. I don’t need more automation. Zapier can just, ugh. But do I think in Zaps? No. I don’t love it. But I love what it brings me. I don’t like nerd out on it, but I appreciate the people that do, which is why I’ve hired you in the past. 

Jordan:It’s funny though, because it’s so true. I think, you know, we talked about looking at other people who are growing their business and hitting these goals and scaling, and I think there’s a certain level that we kind of hit our own ceilings without systems because we cannot serve the people well that we’re serving without systems in place. You can’t keep growing if you don’t have a strong foundation. And I think a big part of that is systems, because that’s what allows everything to work together. It allows you to scale to the next level. It’s going to allow you to hit six figures or seven figures or be able to take your one-on-one service or turn that into an online offer. You need systems in place to free up your time to do these other things.

The last question I wanted to touch on with you before we do our wrap up is kind of this idea that your business is not Christian by nature, right?

You are a Christian, but your brands are not only serving Christians. You’re not talking about faith-based things and that’s where a lot of entrepreneurs fall. That’s where our business was for, seven years teaching Facebook ads and funnels and things like that.

I actually really struggled when I first became an entrepreneur on whether or not I should serve Christians or if that needed to be like part of my business model. We had this mindset shift where we saw our business more as a marketplace ministry.  I think that even when our businesses aren’t, “Christian” by nature, our faith can still play a huge role in how we run our business and how we serve our clients and how we steward our time. Is that something you’ve ever struggled with, or how has your faith journey impacted your own business and entrepreneurship journey? 

How has your faith impacted your business journey?

Joy: I’m so glad you’re going here with this. It’s interesting that you’d asked this because I was just thinking about this whole topic and this whole concept. I was listening to this talk and someone on stage was saying that they had a kingdom business because it was direct to ministry or the money went to a Christian ministry and I leaned over to my husband and I said

“Well, I have a kingdom business too. It just looks different. Every believer has a kingdom business, because everything we’re doing is for the kingdom”

Something like rose up inside of me and I was like, oh my gosh. I know they didn’t mean it to be a divisive thing, but I don’t know if this is like a hot take, but like I just don’t see a differentiation. I think we’re believers running businesses. That verse came to mind from Colossians 3:23 – Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart as if working for the Lord and not for human masters.

When we embody that, whether it is truly a direct like ministry, air quotes ministry, or it’s a ministry to humans and people  And other businesses that may not be directly religiously tied in some way but it still very much so falls under that. A believer is carrying out work and, and my business right now is one of the ways that God is providing for my family.

And so in that way I think it’s one of the tools like working in someone else’s business is a way that God is providing for your family. So yeah, I think we all run a kingdom business. 

Jordan: That’s the verse that this entire podcast is based off of – Colossians 3:23.

Because I think it’s so easy, and I struggled with this not just as an entrepreneur but as a mom too, of. What work meant to me, right? And that if whatever we do means, whatever we do. So if I am on mom duty wiping dirty butts, or I am launching a course and scaling a business, that’s all for the glory of God and for the good of others.

And I love that you said that because for anyone listening that’s been struggling with this, like there’s so much in stewarding your time and your talents and resources well in whatever the way that God us gifted you, whatever the opportunities you have for your family, for the people you serve, for your communities.

That could be in ministry full-time. It could be just serving on a Sunday, and it could be in how you love your clients and the results that you get them in their own lives. I think all of that still falls under loving people and loving God. It’s still bringing honor and glory to Him in whatever kind of work we do. 

Joy: And I’ve started to see, especially in the past year, just being more aware of it. I’m sure God has been bringing me my clients all along, but I’ve started to notice, I think you’re bringing this person to me to work with me right now for a reason. And seeing almost, they’re like divine appointments in a way. I just think there’s, there’s something special about them. And so I’ve started to see that. I think. There’s such an interesting tie between, did I get this client or did God bring them to me?

Because they’re saying stuff that I need to hear and I’m saying stuff they need to hear. It’s very interesting and I think that’s been really cool to like notice in my own business over the past year. 

Jordan: You said earlier we’re ministering to people whether it is ministry in the typical sense, or you coaching someone through a business program. I look at the Bible, Paul was a tent maker. I mean, he worked. He was in ministry when he was preaching the gospel and he was in ministry when he was making tents. I think we have such biblical examples of how we can be called in all of these ways and do good God-honoring work in our business or our homes or, you know, our work life looks like. 

Ok, What is something that’s bringing you joy right now?

Joy: Oh, I guess I’m going to say my pen subscription!

Jordan: It’s funny, this episode sponsored by Joy’s pen subscription. 

Legit, like right. I shouldn’t have just named something from my own company. I love pens and stationary and tools like that but another tool that I’m actually really loving is the Metricool app. It’s cool for repurposing, but the analytics dashboard is really cool too. I really like the way that it displays everything. And so I’m really enjoying that.

Jordan:  What is a favorite book that you’ve read recently? 

Joy: I just finished the book, Eat That Frog!: 21 Ways to Stop Procrastinationand Get More Done in Less Time. 

Jordan: Awesome. Need that one as well. What is a verse that you’re meditating on or something that just has been encouraging you lately? 

Joy: I’ve been trying to get back into like reflecting on a verse and memorizing verses. I feel like I used to be into that and good at that. Lately I’ve been like, let’s get back to that. 

There was a couple that had stood out to me in Matthew. One of them is in Matthew 6:30. It says, “If that’s how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and gone tomorrow, won’t he do much more for you? You of little faith.”  And I just love that. I think it’s just such a reminder of like the value that God sees us with. And I love nature and animals and things and so to have that comparison was a powerful one for me. So I’ve been meditating on that one. 

Jordan: That’s so good. Where can everyone find you?

Joy: I am at Joy Michelle on Instagram and my website is Joymichelle.co 

Jordan: Awesome. Great. Well thank you so much for being on the podcast. This was so fun getting to talk to you. 

Joy: Thank you. Anytime.

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